Murder Begins In The Heart

Anger, Words, and the Sixth Commandment

What if breaking the command “You shall not murder” has less to do with weapons and more to do with what grows inside the human heart?

In this episode of Christian Straight Talk, we move beyond crime scenes and into the hidden battlefield of anger, contempt, and destructive words. When Jesus expands the command in Matthew chapter five, the conversation shifts dramatically. Murder is no longer just about an act of violence. It begins much earlier — in resentment, bitterness, and the careless power of the tongue.

We explore how Scripture raises the moral bar in Exodus chapter twenty, Deuteronomy, and Matthew chapter five, revealing that managing behaviour is not enough. God is interested in the root, not just the outcome. Words can wound deeper than steel. Repeated contempt can shrink identities, damage relationships, and leave scars that last a lifetime.

Along the way, we wrestle honestly with difficult questions surrounding the commandment. What about war and lawful force? How does the Bible distinguish intent from accident? Why does Scripture openly record the failures of figures such as Moses and David? And why does legality not always equal morality?

This conversation refuses easy answers but points clearly to the only lasting solution: a transformed heart.

The law exposes the problem, but love fulfils the law. Through the work of the Holy Spirit, anger can be disarmed, bitterness released, and reconciliation restored. Jesus teaches that making peace with others matters even more than performing religious rituals.

The cross becomes both the pattern and the power for change.

“Father, forgive them” is not weakness. It is victory over the cycle of hatred that destroys families, churches, and nations.

If your faith has stayed in your head, this episode invites it to travel the twelve inches to the heart — where the Spirit does the deep work the law alone could never finish.

Listen for a clear and practical guide to confronting anger, disarming the weaponised tongue, and building habits of love that truly fulfil the law.

Episode Highlights

• Understanding the Ten Commandments as a unified moral foundation

• Why Jesus raises the standard on anger and contempt

• The destructive power of words an

Transcript

Welcome And Series Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Good morning. Good morning in the world of Twitter and uh all the social platforms that we are on at this moment in time. Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you are, for uh this broadcast as we just gather around the mics for hashtag Christian Straight Talk and to everybody in the world of Spotify, iHeartRadio, uh Amazon Music, and so many other platforms that we are pushing these podcasts out on. The book is out, the second one is on its way. Uh it's got stuck in transit somewhere, but it's on its way. May God bless you and strengthen you in the mighty name of Jesus Christ. God is with you, and uh, this is our first time that we are putting putting this live out on Twitter this morning and every week. So we're gonna be not having uh just the audible uh podcast, but literally the visual as well. So good morning to all those that will watch this for 45 minutes. Simon, we're in. Good morning, Ben.

The Ten Commandments As One Whole

SPEAKER_00 1:16

It's great to be back in Sunny Swanley. Um sun is out, yeah, it always is in Swanley, and the palm trees greet us as we drive into the town. But you get off of the little gram as you drive down the road. Yeah, well that reminds us, Ben, doesn't it, of uh what we're um oh lord. What we've been straight talking on for the last few weeks, and it's the Ten Commandments. We've been really giving the Ten Commandments some serious attention and and some deep dive and and a lot of conversation. Very much so. What we've what we realise, I think, Ben, is that um you know we break one, we break them all, don't we? So there's no one there's no one living a perfect life, there's only one person who ever did. None of us can none of us can uh we break them most days, don't we, these these Ten Commandments.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

But every morning, eyes open, socks on, busted the luck.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

And in in the flesh, in in in as you look as you nicely put it in this earth suit, we can't we can't do it. We can't do it. We have to have the Holy Spirit, don't we, to to help us give us the strength to give us the strength to turn our back on whatever. And Ben, last week we uh was talking about honour your father and mother, weren't we? And that was that was another deep one, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

It's a big one, wasn't it, Ben? Actually, they're all enormous lines, aren't they? That all ten are absolutely enormous, and you can say them so quickly, you can read them, and we thought that we were just gonna crack it all out in one crack, you know, and we'll it's like each one is is taking more than one podcast, really, because we're backtracking a little bit, interwoven and moving through all the others, but you can't you can't actually separate them, can you, really, when you look at them, because they all actually go together.

Sin As The Root Problem

SPEAKER_00 2:57

They all go together and in perfect order. And what we have said, and we said that just before we came on air, and was that was that the the the world's problems are not you know are not the the planet or anything like that. The world pro world's problem is sin. Sin. Is sin if people if people tried and kept to some of these to the Ten Commandments, Ben, that that were given to us by God Himself, we'd have a better place to live. See, what we're doing in this world, we're treating the symptoms and not the root. So we you know people uh commit sin, uh but we we deal with the aftermath instead of going and and trying to deal with the actual root of it all.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

It's like having a it's like having a load of trees in the back of your garden, you can't see over the fence. You call a um guy in to cut the trees down, or guy or girl, because we've got to be political correct this day this day. Well, we do well there, babe. I'm adapting to put the church in. So you can be male or female or non-binary, you can be whatever you want. Come on in, cut your gut, cut your trees down, cut your trees down, but don't take the root out. Put the grass over the top, but the real root is still deep down, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

It's gonna come through again, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

You know, it's gonna come through. The root has to be extracted. You know, it's the same with the good old dentist, you know, you've got root canal. You've got to take the root out.

Roots, Forgiveness, And Healing

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Come on, take the root, you've got to sort out the root, and especially if you've got something in your life that's reoccurring, do you know, if you keep going back to you know, the Bible tells us, doesn't it? You know, the dog will return to its vomit. So if you keep going back to the same thing, go back to the same sin, keep doing it and doing it, doing it. There's a reason why you're doing it. Help me, Jesus. Yeah, there's a reason why you're doing it, and and the Holy Spirit can convict you, and it definitely. Yeah. You know, I I was on um just an example, I was on uh on something uh with a group of guys, and one guy, he's in his fifties, he was very fearful. Very fearful. He frightened about everything, so that meant he didn't believe or trust in the Lord, really. So he was fearful, and when we broke it down and and and went back in his life, it happened when he was about eight years old. Um when the bus d uh bus driver uh broke down, the bus driver uh he was coming home from school, and he was and the bus driver went off to get help and he f and he started to get scared that he wasn't going to be able to go back to see his mother.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Something like that. Just a little thing like that. Come all that these years up his life, all the way through his his complete life.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

So that's what we're saying, you know. And um before we go on to this week's, which is cracky, I don't even resisting a little bit to go into this week's Ben, I tell you. But before we do, um as you said, just nipping back into last week's honour your father and mother, I just want to say I don't think we brought it out, but we brought out you brought out the point about forgiveness, and I think it's a real key point, Ben. I think you know, um there is if you're hanging on to bitterness and resentment, it has to be forgiveness, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

It has to be, and where do where does that take us to? To Jesus and to the cross. We can only get to that position in our lives, honour your father and mother, your neighbour, your friend, and all that. It starts with the root again. That word root, it comes what is the root? Yeah, it's it's it the root needs to be dealt with. It needs to be dealt with. It needs to be dealt with in in every area of our life. There is a root that continues to push up through the garden, even if the tree is cut down and it looks good on the on the face of the surface, but deep down in the earth, that it the root is still alive and very well, and we have to ask Christ, Lord, remove the root.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, definitely. I mean, and that's comes back to the cross of Jesus. And what I would say as well, what I thought about this week as as I was just pondering on where we went with that. I was just pondering on that, Ben. I just thought, you know, you you may be out there and you may have something against one of your parents, but they may have died. Yeah. They may have died. So how so so you can still forgive them. Yeah. You can still forgive them, Ben, even though they even though they're past a won. That's right. You might be holding something, some resentment. You can still forgive them. And then the big thing is you forgive yourself. Yeah. Don't you, Ben? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. If you f you start to think what an awful person I am, or whatever, you the big thing is forgiving and then forgiving yourself.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

The root, the power of the mind, the power of the mind starts the the toxic thought pattern, doesn't it? And then suddenly you get in this thought pattern, then fear comes in, anger comes in, frustration comes in. And this this is a this applies to what we're actually talking about today as well. Really fits really really well. That it had the ev everything has a root, it comes from somewhere. It just doesn't, it's not above the table. There's always something under the table with it. Something there's something growing under the table. The table's clean, it's tidy, but underneath we're chucking all the rubbish. And the and under the table is your heart. Your heart has to be dealt with. Your heart has to be swept through. You have to bring it before Christ. I'm bringing my heart all the time before God. Lord, cleanse me, sweep me through, Lord, remove the root, remove the fears, remove. It's deep within.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Well, I think I think that is uh a real God-given uh statement there, because it is the heart.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

But the church ain't dealt with it, has it? It is. Come on, look at the fluffy, it's the heart all the way through the Bible, isn't it? It it's you can't survive in your mind. In your mind, your mind makes it worse. Your thinking makes it worse. It's the heart. It's the heart, you have to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

And what does what does the Bible say about the heart, Ben? Jeremiah it says the heart is deceitful above all things, heart is corrupt, it's wicked.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

And then and then David, they talk about David, we mentioned this a lot, but it's really relevant. David had a heart after God. But you look at his his lifestyle and you think, hang on, he had a heart after God, but he was up to everything going on earth. He'd done everything, he experienced everything, he had a heart after God.

The Heart Versus The Mind

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Well, if you like, we've done a podcast on the heart, didn't we? And we really sort of went deep on that. And and the thing is, uh people go, and I've I've been in in meetings where where people have gone, yeah, but we're in the New Testament now. And all that's no, hold on a minute. Look, look what look what uh the gospels, look what Jesus said about the heart. You know, out of the heart comes blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

You're right, Simon. How many times do we hear that we're we're on the other side of the cross? Well, actually, no, the old goes with the new, the new goes with you cannot separate. The only way, the only time you can separate is is is the time. It's from the old to the new, they say there's three or four hundred years time gap where God was quiet. That's all it was. But they they run Christ was speaking the the old testament every time he delivered something, he spoke his word that was thousands of years old. So the old testament is really relevant. So, because if I remove creation, as we said earlier, I have no standpoint. How many times have I mentioned that I know pastors that actually are more Darwinistic in their belief than they are they don't believe in creation? So without creation, you've lost the Ten Commandments, you've everything's gone.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

We're in you're in real danger when you start to mess about with the word of God, aren't you? Do you know? Yeah, absolutely. You start in danger. In uh, oh, it's not relevant for this day, so what we'll do, we'll put in We'll make it fit our own dirty lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Bang. Exactly. That's what it is. Because you said something earlier, not dealing with sin. The root. What the what the religion and a lot of ministries and what and a lot of leaders are doing is that they're they're turfing over the root. They're cutting the root down, they're cutting the tree down, the the view, the vision's good, we can see daylight again. Well, you don't cut the tree down, they've turfed over it. Ben, they don't even preach about sin. No. I'm a sinner saved by grace. I'm bloodwashed, sanctified. I've got more failings than anybody else, but Jesus Christ loves me and he went to the cross for me, and I'm work in progress.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Ben, you know, Paul says so much about sin, Jesus says so much about sin. You know, we're all have fallen short.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah, all have fallen short of thy glory. That's a beautiful scripture, isn't it? Yeah. And then when you look at the Ten Commandments again that we're in, all of us have hit everyone and done a good job of everyone.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Everyone, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

But someone will go, Well, I'm not a murderer. Well, we're gonna throw some scriptures up. It's not about the physical taking of life as much, it's about the power of the mind and the anger and the frustration.

Old And New Testament Unity

SPEAKER_00 11:48

We're gonna look at what Jesus said about that, then Jesus? Oh yeah. We're talking. You're right, you know, if you just smoothed over them, well, I don't steal, you know, I don't commit adultery. What about that, you know, uh so we're gonna come on to all that, but today's one, Ben, is Verse 13 of Exodus chapter 20.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

I'll read it. You read it, you talk about it. You have it, I'll play it. This is this is probably the violent and the violent and the violent, isn't it? Because when you look at that word, automatically you think oh the murders are behind bars. There's probably more murderers that are outside of Her Majesty's pleasure as in the thought. So let's read it. It says you shall not murder. I think that is the shortest one in the Ten Commandments, as in words. It's one, two, three, four. Four words. You shall not murder. And what did Moses do?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Well he murdered, didn't he? He did murder someone, didn't he? And buried them in a sand. Um you this see so so it's you know, it's easy to to say, look, well, uh I would never or would never kill anybody. No, no, that's not in my nature.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

It's so we are talking about not the physical, but the mind and the hatred and the thought pattern. Um Deuteronomy 5, 17 says exactly the same thing, you shall not murder. You know, Romans 14, uh, verse 8, it says, For if we live, we live uh to the Lord, and we do not die, and we do not die to the Lord. So then, whoever and wherever we live, whether we live or we die, it is for the Lord. So death is a very interesting word, because obviously if you murder, you are taking a life, but you don't need to physically, you don't need to physically do that that act of that removing someone through through an act of violence because the Bible talks about the power of the mind and the hatred of a human being.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Well, we said something earlier, we said it was about the heart, didn't we? So as well, then so look what Jesus said in in the Sermon on the Mount in in uh Matthew 5, 21 to 26 and the title in in my uh in my Bible is Murder Begins in the Heart. Oh gosh what scripture's that? It's Matthew 25, 21 to 26. Wow and he says this he says, You have heard that it was said to those of old, you shall not murder. Right? Yeah, fair enough. And whoever murders will be in danger of judgment. That's fair enough. Fair enough, get that. But he's gone, he's taken it one step further. So all automatically Ben, the standard is gone now, going from murder to go. He's lifted the bar because he always does. But he says, but I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of judgment. And whoever says to his brother, racca, shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says you fool shall be in danger of hell fire.

Introducing “You Shall Not Murder”

SPEAKER_01 15:15

That's like never call anyone a fool. Anger could be the sword, anger could be the bullet, anger could be the weaponry that not the physical act of murder, but the thought pattern and the understanding and the attitude and the frustration of you being angry to someone is as bad as the physical erase erasion of life.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

The anger towards someone, yeah, but look what he's taken it even further. So anger, and then he's calling your brother a fool.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

So that word or something, how often very careful, haven't we? You don't know. Yeah, you twit, you you fool. Fool, woof. That's an interesting word. So straight away, anyone could read the Ten Commandments and go, okay, yeah, I might have failed on the first one. I haven't committed the physical adultery, I haven't I haven't really stolen murder now, I'm not a murderer, but the attitude to another human being is as bad as getting in a full fight and having and having a physical death on your hands, uh is is is the is the your attitude in your heart.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

It's completely it's the attitude in your heart. So so I honestly believe that that if these were understood, if these were preached in the right way, if this was explained to people, then you know, you know, sometimes we get them thoughts about people and we kind of like to sit in them thoughts, don't we? We kind of invite them in and we sit down and have a cup of tea with them. We kind of like that because you know, um it it I don't know, our flesh loves that, doesn't it? Our flesh loves to to pick someone to pieces, doesn't it? Our flesh loves that. It really does. It really does. And the Bible says be careful, be careful. So even in in in in conversation, when we're talking about another brother, where we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah, and you get really angry and you get so wound up. Words are so they are such a destroyer. So you don't need to have a gun with bullets, you don't need to have a knife, you don't need to wipe anyone off the earth physically because of the James says very clearly the the the the muscle, the smallest muscle in the body, the tongue, is the most damaging. You're either gonna lift people or destroy people. So words kill people for the rest of their life.

Jesus Raises The Bar On Anger

SPEAKER_00 17:57

So the words do, yeah, words do. Words are bullets, what what arrows. I'd go even further than that, Ben. Words can become roots in people's lives.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

So when you're told if you're no good, yeah, yeah. If you're if you are uh all that stuff that comes out and all the way through your life, suddenly you can reach a point where you are physically existing, but because you have been coming under gunfire all your life from certain people, you are dead, but you are just trying to survive.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Just trying to survive. I and I I'd say there's another aspect to it as well. While while you personally are plotting and planning and talking and and and wrestling with ports about people that you believe have done you wrong, or there's an injustice towards you, then God can't move. God can't move. And he says clearly, uh Paul says, I think it's in Romans 12 somewhere, Ben I I do believe, he says, Revenge is mine, says the Lord. Revenge is mine, saith the Lord. And I will repay. So if you're if you're taking that out of the Lord's hands and saying, I'm gonna get my own revenge.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Because then it comes if it comes down to forgiveness. If if you if you can't forgive, I can't forgive you. So that so it comes down to the root of the heart. You can be you can be the most calmest person, you can be the most against weaponry and fighting and wars, but you could literally destroy someone's life by what you've said to them and the attitude, and you have committed a bigger crime than actually erasing someone off the earth.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, because you can also do her harm to yourself. Yeah, because then you lock yourself in there, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yeah, but I don't think that that we actually understand the power of of the the power of words. They are bullets. They are bullets and they're arrows.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

What happens is that they're like seeds that that go in. Yeah. And what happens is so someone is told either by a parent or a school that they're no good, then every every negative word after that waters that seed and it just grows. And and and so in the end, you've got you you end up with someone who who's got want no validation, no confidence, um, you're very insecure because of that root of those words. And unless it's sorted, yeah, they they they will carry on.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

That's right. But but murder is is a big thing, isn't it? You've got accidental death, you've got something you're trying to protect yourself in a violent situation. There's loads of ways of looking at that word.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Well, Ecclesiastes 3 3 says there is a time to kill, don't it? So yeah. Oh, oh Lord. And and if you look in the Old Testament, uh the Old Testament is more bloodthirsty than the bloodthirsty religion, because he you know, God has said, go in and destroy those people.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Don't leave no one standing. That can be very difficult to grasp, can't it?

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah.

Words As Weapons And Lifelong Wounds

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Because we've been given the Ten Commandments, then all of a sudden, we've got this stuff in Genesis, uh, in Exodus, sorry, that we're looking at in Exodus chapter 20. You've got all this stuff, and then suddenly you're seeing Joshua and and Caleb and and the warriors going in there, taking the cattle out, taking every everything that breathes has been wiped out. So, how do we handle that one as a believer? Because when you read these these cities and these places that were taken, no one was left standing. Look at Jericho, look at look what Rahab. Rahab done a deal with the two the two the two spies. We we want to live, we will do anything. She lied to the king's men, she she lied every way through, she got herself into a safe place, um, and everything the Went on with her, but that city, Jericho was gonna fall, and no one came out there alive. But this is the God of love.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yeah. The same with AI, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

AI took AI and one after the other.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

So that that book in Joshua is But God is love. God would God wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

God wouldn't.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

The only way you put a caveat on that really is that these were uh cultures that were so anti anti-God, that had gone so far away from that they were sacrificing their own children to other gods.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah, so you have to look into the the depth of that to understand.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

You have to look into the root of that, and and God says he's given them countless opportunities to turn away from that, and they haven't. So you he can't have a he he couldn't have his his chosen people mixing in that area with with those. Because all all that would happen, and we we know and we saw what would happen, is that they eventually turned to their gods, didn't they? That's right, yeah, yeah. Even even um uh the the whites, you know, the Solomon turned turned there.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Blue water, lakeside, credit cards.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Well, in the case of Solomon, he had 700 wives, didn't he, and thousands of concubines. So you can see where his mind was coming.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Oh, yeah, you can see what led him along. So when you look at murder, murder is all the way through the Bible, isn't it? All the way through. Cain and Abel. Uh right at the start. Right at the start. Yeah, the right there's fighting at the start. There's wars, rumours of wars, there's family feuds. One family member killing another family member. So this is not this is not because when you look at that word murder, and and God please be with those that have uh have have done that, and we're not going into that, we're not judging anyone whatsoever, because the Bible says very clearly that we're all an adulterous generation, and through the scripture that we are reading out, the anger of a person is as bad as the physical act of taking a life. But then you look at wars, you've got these men and the you've got these women that that are out in war, and we all know what happens in war and everything like that. So Well, you've you've got a um So there's another area There's another aspect to it, isn't there? You know, so defence and when you look at all this stuff and you look at the Ten Commandments, everyone on the earth, whether you're on the front line in the military or whether you've had an accidental situation that has just caused murder or whatever has happened, murder has many different platform, many different meanings, doesn't it? Through the thoughts or the acts.

Justice, Vengeance, And Letting God Judge

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Self-defense. What's murder is is uh in in in law, it's the unlawful killing of another person, homicide. It's the unlawful killing of another person. In the UK, we have two layers where you have you have the um deliberate murder, so the intentional murder is murder. Uh and then we have a summit called manslaughter, which is the unintentional thing where maybe someone has a fight, hits a guy once, he falls to the floor, cracks his head on a curb, and he dies. So that's that's manslaughter. In the states they call murder one, murder two. So so we've got different all that going on.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

So that that you know you have to say that and there are some religions out there that and certain areas of of religion where you murder on what I would actually call sacrifice, to you think that you are sacrificing to your God when you have sacrificed and you have done that because you think that you are honouring a foreign god. Well, you know, so So you find that in religion, and I will say religion, and I will say other faith, other whatever way you look at that.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Whatever way you look at it, I was reading uh an article the other day that the the the Aztecs would uh literally, you know, on on some they have they believe that by murdering and taking people's hearts out they they they um uh they delayed the end of the earth. So 80,000 people would be killed in one mur on a on a stone in one day. So we yeah, you're you're exactly right. So but in in wars, modern day wars and whatever, I guess that people say it's a lawful killing, don't they? But there's so much stuff going on.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

There's so much stuff that goes on. It's like even even when you look at certain governments around the world, the the way that they murder people through literally not feeding them and watering them, they have blood on their hands. They've got yeah, so it's not so much to do with bullets and weaponry. You can take someone's life by ri restraining and controlling them through starvation, and you're living in palaces and you're living so murder. It doesn't have to be by literally the whole thing, doesn't it? It covers the whole thing. So when you open up the the the can of the word, you can see this that you can see it right, and then and then you you look at Moses, he scribbled this stuff down. But what was the first thing that we find out that he done? He got caught in a scrap and he took someone's life, and he's writing this down on the tablet. He must have like thought, hang on, don't give me this one a minute. It's a real it's a real um, it's a real big one, it's a real time Joshua and Caleb, David. What about David? David had a bit of an eye for a certain young woman in a rock tub on the on the on the top of the other roof, and what did he do? He gave he gave a note to her husband and went he killed him.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yeah, he killed him.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

He didn't draw the knife on him, but he he planned it in his head, he gave the order.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

So when you look at all this stuff and you look at religion and you look at just society, it's not some David gave a letter over.

Law, War, And Moral Complexity

SPEAKER_00 27:49

The letter didn't take the man out, it was a so when you look at murder, it's the human nature is just wicked, isn't it? Right down right down to the bottom. I mean, I I've I've been watching a little bit. I like Westerns, you know, on the on the TV. And the bloodshed that was caused by you know uh killing the Indians in in North America that that uh old American society was built on bloodshed. Most of the Western world, most societies have been built or established on on blood. On blood on bloodshed. On blood, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

You've just got to look at Jesus. What did what did religion, what did the Jewish leaders want to do? They murdered the king of the Jews. They murdered him. Jesus was killed. We want to erase this Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

But but but so there we have murder. That's that's what we all understand murder.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

The crucifixion.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

But but but Jesus says you know, even calling your brother a fool. So and he goes on to say, doesn't he? He goes he goes on to say that you know why are you having a go at your brother who's got a speck in his eye when you've got a plank in your own eye? Do you know? So so I I think we should, you know, we could it's a retrospective thing by where we look at ourselves, don't we? Always in relation to these, to, to, to the to the commandments, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

It's it's a subject that is a very it's enormous, and I think that you could talk about this, you could speak about this, when you look at it, you as soon as you mention that word, you think of of of an act of violence. Um, but there are other ways that this comes into through speech, through through control, through manipulation, through uh many other ways, many other ways. So that that this is an enormous subject whatsoever. But when you come to the scripture and you look at what uh the high priest, the high priests murdered. I know what the scripture says very clearly that Jesus said it is finished. Yes, he was in control of that, but the crucifixion is what is the brutal most brutalist death on planet earth. And Christ, Christ went to the cross, they whipped him, they beat him. Now we're not talking just about the Roman soldiers, we're not talking about the world, we are talking about what we know, what we know as the Jewish leaders, we are looking at what we see, the the synagogue rulers, we're talking about all the this authority, the authorities, they stood for the authority, and the authorities thought that they took the life of Jesus, but they didn't realise that he was in full charge of his own death. But they wanted, they said, What uh look at Judas, look at that man there. What what will it cost? What will it cost us to give you that we will see him erased? This is so this is the to me, this is the biggest area of of almost murder in in full blatant law. We have a right to take this man to the cross.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Yeah, they did it through um uh their legal system.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

So the legal system, yeah, you look across the legal system across the world, is very different across the world, isn't it? Oh yeah. Very, very different. Then you bring it into religion, and that's what we got here, religion.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

So they they believe that uh they they couldn't sneak up and and kill G. They wanted to make a big spectacle of it, they wanted to, you know, make it out, you know, so so they they did it through the legal rights, they did it through the the the Roman law, they did it uh But what they didn't realise that it was written in Genesis, they didn't realise that what they was doing was written by the Word of God, and they was only doing what was written.

Religion, Power, And Legalised Killing

SPEAKER_01 31:59

So this word is absolutely enormous. And you think how how can you bring it to a completion? You can't because even through you might you might be at church, you might be living a real fruitful life, you might be just in ministry, you might not have no intentions of fighting or or anything whatsoever, you might never have been in caught in scraps, anything in your life, but you can be brought to this this verse, verse 13, purely by your attitude.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Well, it it's something I I ask, you know, sometimes I when I uh start a talk um wherever I'm going, uh I ask three questions and uh um anyone ever lied? I say, has anyone ever stole, or is anyone ever murdered, you see? So uh they put their hands up to the first two, but when you say murder, no, but then you go even calling your brother a fool, you're in danger. Have you ever hated anyone in your life? Have you only hated anybody in your life? And the majority of us out there have hated someone at some point in our lives, uh, and so that's akin to murder, and and and we've so we've all fallen short of this one particular thing. Fallen short. We uh the it's the the bar is so high that we can't make it by ourselves. So we can't make it by ourselves. Look what he he goes on to say, right, and that just just a few words, he really ammers it home, doesn't he? He says, therefore, if you bring your gift to the altar and there and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go away. First be reconciled to your brother and then come and offer your gift. So, how many people out there have got uh long-term arguments and problems with with um with people in their family, with who didn't they never talk to them, uh or friends that have fallen by the wayside, they've never talked to them. He says, agree with your adversary quickly while you're on your way with him, let your adversary deliver you to the judge, and the judge will hand you over to the opposite and you will be thrown into prison. Surely I say to you, you will by no means get out of there until you are paid the last penny. He's given us a warning that if we if we don't if we don't sort out things, you know, you know, life is you wear it all the time, life is too short for all this. It is it is life is too short, you know, for all this. And we've all got people. I think most of us have got people that you know maybe we don't we don't talk to or whatever.

Heart Check: Self-Examination And Reconciliation

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Don't like, don't talk to we've got family grievances. Family is a big thing, isn't it? We've had a massive argument in the family, we've slammed the door, we've closed the door in that face, but that is more damaging than than we really realise. So attitude and heart condition is is critical to a believer. When when you really look at it, look, I've got a scripture here in Romans, Romans chapter 13, it's a bit of a read, but it's Romans 13, verse 8, and it says, Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuation debt of love, love one another. So important, isn't it? And then it goes on and says, For whoever loves um others has fulfilled the law. So love is really important. So love, God is love, uh, God is hope and forgiveness, and everything is wrapped up in this word love, and it says the commandments in verse 9 of Romans chapter 13, the commandments, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, and you shall not cover. And whoever uh the other commandments there may be are summed up in this one commandment love your neighbour as yourself. Love does no harm to your neighbour, therefore, love is the fulfilment of the law. So if I am an aggressive person, if I am a person that does not love my neighbour, I have broke everything without getting out of bed in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Totally, and it's exactly what we what we said right at the beginning. The first four commandments are about your relationship with Jesus and about your relationship with uh through our uh the our Heavenly Father through Jesus. The next six are love your neighbour as yourself. So, you know, if you yeah, before before you go out of bed in the morning, you're you're in trouble.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

So if it you're in trouble, so it has nothing to do with the physical adultery, it has nothing to do with the physical stealing, it has nothing to do with the physical murder. It is all done and acted within one's heart.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah, it starts, that's where it starts.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

It starts in the heart, I mean obviously it starts and it's finished and it's done. We understand that the that the physical act, obviously, but when you look at this scripture, it says if you do not love your neighbour as yourself, yeah, you are in serious trouble for breaking every one of them. So where where do I so right, I'm an angry person, I'm a frustrated person, I'm full of pride, arrogance. I've broken everything. So where do I go? I go to the cross.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

You it all comes back to the cross every one of us. That's to come back there. And and what it says there, do it quickly. Do it quickly. Don't let it fester. No. Because you let them them things fester. Believe me, you know, I'm saying this, and and I've probably got half a dozen things festering around in you know inside inside of me that that I have to you have to bring to I we have to bring it, Ben. You know, if we we're gonna do a we're gonna do a uh a podcast on the little foxes at some stage, but these these things destroy your peace. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and and family's the worst, you know. I've got something going on right at the moment with with my with my with my family on on a couple of levels.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Uh, and if you let them fester, it becomes a well a drive and a anger and uh and a pride area where I'm not backing down, I'm right, you're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

But what does the Bible say out of the heart of the mouth speak? So you've got you know, you when when you're in that situation, before you know where you are, you're rattling off. And you've fired bullets you've lost your wit you've lost your witness, in what sort of Christian kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

And there's no act of love.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

There's no act of love, no.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

And then when you look, so how do I deal with this? The one that was murdered at the cross of Calvary, his life.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Well, how did he deal with it?

SPEAKER_01 38:45

He said, Father, forgive them, for they know no what they do.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

So there's our example. Jesus. We can't do this by ourselves. We you know, we say this all the time. We cannot do this by in the flesh, the flesh would love you to to rock up, you know, and have a fight, throw a few chairs around.

Love As Fulfilment Of The Law

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Yeah, yeah. You know, anger and fighting, you know, even if someone isn't taken out physically, it is bad as because it it's within, it's the aggression of the person, it's aggressive attitude. So it starts from within. So how many people have not committed all this stuff as the scripture says? I haven't stolen, I haven't committed adultery, I haven't murdered, um, but I'm an angry man. I'm a f I'm an unforgiving man. So you've just busted, yeah, you've busted everything. I go to church though, but you're not at the cross. There's a difference between going to a building and going to the cross. I've got to go, I don't need a church to go to the cross. The church is not the place that I have to go. I have to go to Jesus Christ. I have to be found at the cross of Calvary.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

And here's the deal, Ben. You know, we're coming at two years of being locked down. We're in a situation, right, where the world is it don't know where it's going. It's it's uh worshipping the the creation, not the not the creator. We're in a real bad situation. So there's a lot of anger out there. There's anger. You know, you see it on the road, don't you? You know, a lot of anger, road rage. A lot of a lot of people. Even driving down here today on on the M25, you know, you you see them but cutting in, cutting out, especially them in the white vans with swallowing on the side of it. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, exactly. Yeah, so so there's there's a lot of anger on the motorways. Yeah, because people haven't got the anchor of Jesus Christ. People haven't got the hope.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

And why is that?

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Because the Ten Commandments have been erased from where they've been erased from education, they've been erased from everywhere. So that we you know, you know, there's no preaching on conscience, there's no preaching on on sin.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Do you know this what this murder is you know the it's opened the door to a massive conversation that straight away you read that and you think, well, I'm not a murderer, I've never taken no one's life. But actually, the attitude of the heart is the weapon, oh yeah, is is the most dangerous weapon, and then that is manifested through my speech and the power of the tongue and the way I deal with when you look at the prophets of old, even you look at um Elijah, Elijah wiped out, Elijah prayed for rain, it rained. Then he wiped out 450 people. He he killed them, but he prayed for a miracle. So you have to really look at this word, murder.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

And there is, you know, and and and so we've got God's law, and then you and then you uh put it into uh the government that we live in, the law that we So there is lawful stuff. I mean, you know, in in the police when I was on a a unit, you know, uh I was often carrying a gun, and you know, I think the Lord never used it, but but I would have used it. And I would have, you know, I was in a if I was in that situation, I would have killed someone to stop them doing an unlawful act. So there's there's there's lawful stuff.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

And then so that lawful thing is very clear when it's like that, but then it slips into But then it bounces back to you though, doesn't it? Then the law is erased from that though, isn't it?

From Churchgoing To The Cross

SPEAKER_00 42:33

It's that if you if a police officer was to pull the trigger, it's them that's coming under the you come under scrutiny, yeah, because it is is it a good shoot, is it a lawful shoot, or are you just you know foreign off because you didn't buy the case? But then then that lawful killing drops into something that's really really you know got a grip on on the world at the mo uh in certain parts of the world, and it's called abortion, Ben.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Yeah. Oh that's a that's an enormous so it's an enormous place.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

That is, you know, the the unlawful killing of a a child in a womb. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

When you when you look at that, yeah, when you look at that, the gift of life, the gift of life from from that point, that that miracle point, that that that that baby growing, that oh gosh, there's even when you look, oh yeah, it's even painful to talk about it, isn't it? When you when you think about what the Bible says.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

But it but here we we we understand, you know, you imagine if if some young girl or or ever's unfortunate to be gang raped and then she's there's a child coming out there's horrendous uh deformities they they've pulled out. You underst you can understand from certain standpoints, you know, the actual

SPEAKER_01 44:00

The actually look at Herod. Look at Herod when you look at that. We're gonna wipe out every child. When you you think of that, murder is physical murder is all the way through the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

So so it's it's through the Bible. So the but uh we comes back, Ben, to if we're if we're leading a godly life, if we're obeying these ten commandments, so so rather than and again, rather than deal with the symptom, which would be the baby from from yeah, yeah, let's deal with the root, which is education, which is which is um talking about you know if if people out there listened and read and adhered to what the Bible said, then there'd be no sex before marriage, would there? No. And so any any babies who are born would be born into a loving biblical family and a biblical relationship. And you know, if you suddenly ban abortions, which some states have done in the United States, well you're just gonna drive it underground, ain't you?

SPEAKER_01 45:06

You know, you got every everything you drive it underground, it doesn't just because the law said no, it happens greater under the table, and and then you got then it becomes a a dangerous really dangerous really dangerous it's an enormous subject.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

It's an enormous subject. I mean you you have the most sympathy with with with uh women at that that have put been put into into making horrendous choices, you know.

Modern Anger And Lost Conscience

SPEAKER_01 45:31

And God loves them, God loves them. But when you when you look at that word murder, and everyone, you know, people will absolutely cringe at this podcast. People are literally gonna go like you're out of order. I'm a godly person. But it's it's it's not the physical act that we're looking at, it is the the attitude of the mind. Beyond the attitude of the mind, it is where is your heart? Where is your heart? You know, look. Look at David. He was I've got to mention David again. He was in the field, he murdered bear and lion, fair enough. He was anointed by that great prophet, that great holy man. He went back to the field, then he went and he he slayed Goliath. Murder. He was chosen to be king, he he was an adulterous man, he was a warrior, he was a fighter, he was God's man, he was the leader of the king of Israel. But while he was the king, he gave a letter, he gave a letter, so that the act wasn't done with David's physical strength or a knife, the act was done with his heart.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

With his heart, yeah. Yeah, with his heart. And you know, I know that's really important. It's massively important.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

See it's people will put themselves in, well, I haven't got a knife, I haven't got a gun, I haven't done anything. But what's in your heart? What is it? It comes down to what's in your heart.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

What is in your heart. See, and and Jesus said in them three short words, even calling your brother a fool, you're in danger.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Just by your language and your expression. No language is very powerful.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

There's there is one person in the Bible who God called a fool. Right. God called a fool, and that was a rich man. Because he said, didn't he? He said, he said, Look, I'm so wealthy in his heart, he said he said, I'm so wealthy, I'm gonna build bigger barns. And God said to him, You fool donut. Yeah, you fool, tonight your life's gonna be taken. So, so you got you right, Ben. This heart thing, we can't get away from it.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

You can't you can't move from it. We cannot get away from it. You might be a person that lives morally perfectly, the children are are being brought upright, you might have this, you might have that, you might not even, you're pushing peace, you're doing all this on the outside, but your heart is rotten.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

It's not outward, so it's what's in. It's what's in, but so what will happen is eventually the fruits of that will come out.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Will come out and we'll see it. You'll see it. But when you look at the Bible and you look at that word murder, you you go from the very beginning. When Adam and Eve had their children, murder was in the family. So right from the kick point, right to the end of Revelation, you've got bloodshed all the way through. It's the most thirstiest, bloodthirstiest book on earth.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Yeah, people say it's a blood bloody religion, and it's a bloody religion. Blood had to be spilt for life to begin. For life to begin. And and and in those days before Christ, blood had to be spilt for the for the forgiveness of sins, didn't it? But you know, we one sacrifice once and for all.

Prophets, Power, And Violence

SPEAKER_01 48:51

When you look at Christianity, isn't it funny that the church in the UK makes it all fluffly and cows clouds and scones and cups of tea when actually you really look tea bicker? More tea bicker. Nice life of cake, yes, please. Thank you. But when you look at Christianity, when you look at Christianity, it is it is the most bloodfirse religion. I don't even like it. Is when you look at the Bible right from the right from the garden from Genesis, it talks about Abbot Adam and Abba and Costello. Adam and Eve gave birth to their sons, and jealousy came in. Fear came in, but territorial position came in. So heart was at the day one.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

But religion has got a lot to answer for, ain't it? Because you know, there's been there's battles in most countries between Catholics and Protestants, where they've been murdered, martyred, yeah, killed in the name of religion.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

So when you look at that Which is which is Yeah, I'm justified doing what I'm doing because I'm doing it in the holy way. I'm doing it because I'm right.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Burn them at the stake, you know, because you're a heretic. Well, I believe in Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

I believe in Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

But you don't believe in our Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Burn them. Burn 'em. So when you look at generations, no wonder he says you adulterous and murderous generation.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

But because that's the heart, in it, Benedict.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Is what you are in that no one can see. And what I love in uh Simon mentioned that I do talk about the earth suit. Now, the reason I've I'd speak about that is because if you was to look in Genesis, this makes me laugh. It says God made them a suit of skin. Right? So it's all within, it's all within the perimeters. This this is all within my skin. So you can't get away from the fact that if I am not loving, I am an adulteress generation, I'm a st I'm a thief, I'm a murderer, I am I'm everything because I am not loving. I have broken the law.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Paul puts it, doesn't he, in in Corinthians 13, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Does he? Does the church talk about it? Paul he said what did he do?

SPEAKER_00 51:20

He said what good was he? What did he write?

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Um yeah, sorry, I've got man's Bible.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

But he said, doesn't he? If you you know you can do all this stuff without love, you're like a clanking symbol, empty. It's meaningless. It's meaningless. It's isn't love is the greatest thing. Because Ben, you know, I come back to to that Jeremiah 17 9, depravity, which is you know, the heart is more deceitful than all else, is desperately sick. Who can understand it? Well, you can't understand that heart, can you?

SPEAKER_01 51:51

So it's fallen from the garden, and that's what we have to understand is that we have fallen from the taking of the tree.

Abortion, Ethics, And The Root Issue

SPEAKER_00 51:58

These these ten commandments are God's, they ain't resolution, as you said before. These are commandments, these are commandments what it says. Not not can you possibly could you give it away? Because he loved this world so much that he not only did he give us Jesus, but he gave us these commandments. And and when you look at them, and we've gone into them, and if you sort of start to uh bring them into play and and go look at your heart and go, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

What did Billy Graham say? I broke all of them. I broke all of them. But when you look at Billy Graham, I would say one of the greatest God's anointed preachers that brought a message for that particular generation, and that was fitting and that was right, and he was happy to stand up there and go, I busted them all. He's never drawn a knife, he never he never pulled the gun.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

And he says the attitude of the mind and the heart. He says, I can't keep these in the flesh. He said, and there's no one he talked to thousands, and he says no one here could keep these in the flesh.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

It's impossible because of the heart. Because of your heart, it comes all the way back through, then it strips everybody else away from you, it strips all the weaponry, it strips everything away, and it leaves you in a room with you and the cross and Jesus going, I can see your heart. I can see your heart. Your heart, lip service. You haven't physically hit anybody, you haven't, you haven't had an accident in in a vehicle, but your heart is as more dangerous than a gun.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

So then maybe you're a bang on me. And uh so maybe uh there'll be people listening to this who are are living a faith or are trying to understand the Bible in their heads. But the deal is let that just drop, I don't know, twelve or so inches to your heart. Goodness gracious. And the number one commandment is love the Lord your God with all your heart, your mind, your soul. Then love with all your heart. If you're not, there's a if you're not started there, if you haven't got that, then you haven't got relationship with with Jesus, have you?

SPEAKER_01 54:03

No, and then I think as Simon's saying that, you've got to look at when the Potter's house, you know, the master working the clay. We're clay in the master's hands, and he has to be brutal with that clay, he has to shape that, and it can take hours, it can take weeks, it can take years of this stuff, this anger festering inside this unforgiving.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Time and time again, you've got to hand them. That's why Paul says, doesn't he, in uh I think it's Corinthians, in it, um I don't know, uh where he says um take every thought captive.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

Oh that that that scripture alone, take every every thought. Now, what thoughts are they? The thoughts that break the Ten Commandments.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Take every every thought captive, nail it to the cross of Calvary, give it to Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Give it to Jesus, yeah. Take them so and that's not just a I'm gonna I'm telling you out there that uh Ben, that's not just a a one-time deal. That is you can't do that if if you if you've got something in your life that's coming at you, you've got to do that every minute of every day until you get victory. It's the cross. It's the cross. You've got to bring it to the cross, bring it to the foot of the cross, bring it to the cross, bring it to Christ. Jesus, look, take this away from me. Take this away from me. That's why we've got the scriptures. That's why we've got the scriptures.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

We're out of it. We're 55 minutes in. Whoa. That's like it's a mass, it's a word, isn't it? That word murder, you think, well, it don't apply to me. Um but it's not the physical, because that word opens up the envelope of the spiritual, the language, the attitude, the pride, the arrogance, the way that I live, the way that I treat people. It's a big word.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

You you I mean you as we come to a close, you've you've said it, and is all of these commandments deal with the the heart, the heart, and and when we get we we go somewhere to get that right, then all our outward actions will be right. Yeah, that's right. Won't they?

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Seek ye first the kingdom of God, wherever you are, you know, it's a big subject, a very difficult word to tackle. It honestly, it really has. It's honest, I'm I'm literally thrown on this one because it's you you almost remove yourself from that one and go, nah, not me.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

When actually it is you, it is me.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

You're right up to your neck in it. You're up to your neck in all of it.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

And something next week, Ben, where you're gonna be over your neck in it. I don't know. I'm monology next week. I was gonna say, you're gonna be with us next week as we go into it.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

You can deal with that on your own. You're talking about adultery again in your head, um stuff on the telly, stuff on Coronation Street.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

We'll get into it next week, but that again is where your heart is.

David, Intent, And Hidden Murder

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Where your heart is. God bless. You can find us on Bus Route Spotify, iHeartRadio. You can find us. This was live on Twitter, Ben, wasn't it? Live on Twitter today. Yeah. Grab the book, you can grab the book, you know. Grab that book, hashtag Christian Straight Talk. It is floating around the table somewhere here. Um, you can grab that on Amazon, and um, we really would urge you to follow Jesus. Follow Jesus. But yeah, please grab the book, hashtag Christian Straight Talk, find that on Amazon, have a look. You can find it on Kindle as well, and uh it can be delivered to your door by that beautiful, smiling, you know, happy person that drops all those parcels in our door.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Santa Claus.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

Oh yeah, and sorry, I mean Amazon. Yeah, sorry, yeah, not Santa Claus. Anyway, God bless, have a great day wherever you are, and and just it's all to do with the heart condition. Yeah, you know, God is with you wherever you are, never give up, keep pushing and pushing and pushing. God's love is with us, and He loves every one of us, and the power of redemption is beyond everything. God bless. God bless you.