#CST - 10 Commandments - 5th Commandment (#CST27)

CST27 – The Fifth Commandment: Honour Your Father and Mother

In this episode of Christian Straight Talk, Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon continue their journey through the Ten Commandments by exploring Exodus 20:12, “Honour your father and your mother.” The discussion examines what biblical honour truly means, distinguishing honour from worship and highlighting the importance of respect, forgiveness, and healthy family relationships. The conversation addresses the challenges many people face due to difficult relationships with parents, absent fathers, and past wounds. Ben and Simon emphasise that true healing comes through Jesus Christ, who leads believers to the Heavenly Father. The episode encourages listeners to choose forgiveness and discover freedom through God’s grace.

What This Episode Is About

This episode focuses on the Fifth Commandment and explores how honouring parents affects every area of life. Ben and Simon discuss family relationships, the impact of fathers and mothers, forgiveness, parenting, discipleship, and the role of the church in modelling biblical family values.

The conversation covers:

• What it means to honour parents biblically.
• The difference between honour and worship.
• Forgiving parents for past hurts.
• Healing from father wounds and family struggles.
• The importance of godly parenting.
• Respecting elders and learning from experience.
• Following Jesus to discover the love of the Heavenly Father.
• Why forgiveness is essential for spiritual growth.

Main Themes

• The Fifth Commandment.
• Honour versus worship.
• Forgiveness and healing.
• The Father’s love.
• Family relationships.
• Respect for parents and elders.
• Spiritual maturity.
• Biblical parenting.
• Identity in Christ.
• Restoration and reconciliation.

Key Scriptures

• Exodus 20:12
• Ephesians 6:1-3
• Leviticus 20:9
• Proverbs 20:20
• Matthew 15:3-9
• 1 Timothy 5:1-8
• Luke 2:51
• John 14:6
• Luke 23:34

Key Discussion Points

• Honouring parents does not mean worshipping them.
• Forgiveness is often the first step towards honour.
• Many struggles with God as Father stem from difficult earthly father relationships.
• Jesus modelled honour and obedience throughout His life.
• The church should help restore healthy family relationships.
• Respect for elders brings wisdom and stability.
• Unforgiveness can become a barrier to spiritual growth.
• True freedom comes through Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Core Takeaway

The Fifth Commandment reveals that honour begins with forgiveness. Many people carry wounds caused by parents, family members, or authority figures, but Jesus offers healing and restoration. Honouring parents is not about ignoring past pain or excusing wrongdoing; it is about allowing God to heal the heart so that bitterness no longer controls life. Through Christ, believers can learn to forgive, honour appropriately, and experience the love of the Heavenly Father, who never abandons His children.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Good morning, podcasters. May God bless you. Wherever you are, you're joining Simon and myself, hashtag Christian Straight Talk as we gather across the mics this morning as we record this podcast as it pushes out across this earth. May God bless you and strengthen you. You know, as we always say, this is a great day because God is with us. And wherever you are, whether you're on the social network of Twitter or whether you're capturing this a week down the line or you're on YouTube with us, God bless every one of you. Never give up. Simon, we're back. It's great to be back, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yes. Uh across the mics, it's great. And you you're right, Ben, you know, never give up. And um really when we started this Christian hashtag Christian Straight Talk, we're we're all about encouragement, mate, ain't we?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

100%. All the way through.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

I want to be encouraging anyone who's out there who's listening to this. You know, it's troubled times in the world, isn't it, Ben? Yeah. You know, I was talking to um, I tell you I met uh this morning. I met um Richard, but you know Richard, yeah, yeah, yeah. The carpenter, didn't it? Oh, Richard, Richard the Carpenter. And you know, he's a believer, isn't he? And definitely, yeah. And um he's got a big smile on his face, and he said, Oh, you know, Simon, I really need the Lord right now because it's it's then times, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

It's then times.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yeah. Um we see said we got to the stage where we where I don't believe anything that I see on the on the on the news or reading the paper. You know, I just believe in in Jesus. And he's got a big smile on his face and he's got his cuff in his hand and he's I believe in Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Yeah, yeah. Isn't that lovely to hear that there are people out there that go, I just believe in Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

And that's all he ever asked us to believe, isn't it? Just believe, Ben. So we're all about encouragement, we're all about really wherever you are, we want to encourage you. And Ben's right, you know, never give up. You've got you've got the greatest motivational tool behind you in the world's ever seen. You've got you've got Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. So really never, never give up.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Never give up. There's always a way forward. And and Simon said, as we, you know, just pushing out and just uh dipping our toe into other things, as we just trying to hear loud and clear what God is leading us to do, you know, as as men, as uh fathers and whoever we are, you know. And do you know another thing, Simon? You said something the other week I think it's important that someone said to me yesterday, coming off the back end of a conversation we had, what type of leader are you? And I didn't answer it in the way that I would have answered before. Do you know what I said? I'm just a servant. I just serve. Because that's all I can do. Because if I say I'm a pastor, I'm a reverend, I'm this, I'm that, I'm a hospice chaplain, I'm I'm A, B, C, and D, I think we limit ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Oh yeah, no, you're exactly right. We do well, we put ourselves in a box, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

We do, we put ourselves in the box.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

And we are, we're a servant of of the law, we're a a civilian of the kingdom. Oh man, and uh we just want uh we just want to follow Jesus and and uh hopefully advance the kingdom in some small way or make and make the world a better place for wherever in your environment and just like Richard said, do you know?

SPEAKER_01 3:40

And you said I I follow Jesus. I'm not yeah, you might label me with a certain few things in in in church, but actually I'm a slave to righteousness, I'm a sinner saved by grace, I'm washed in the blood of Jesus. We serve a God of hope, the God of Israel. There's hope, isn't there? Because God is hope.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

God is hope. I mean, you you like if you design the labels as well. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Of course I do, but that's my weakness, and Jesus loves me in my weakness.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

You know, I'm only joking, but getting back to like um you know, Richard, you know, he's a he's out there, he's he's on the tools, and he's just his his face was just beaming this morning.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Do you know? I just want to follow Jesus. Yeah, that is the biggest, powerfulest wording anyone could ever say in it. I'm just following Jesus. Well, you're not just following Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

I said to him, I said to him, are you uh you going to see Ben this morning? He said, uh no, he said, but uh tell him you know if he's got that few quid he owes me to, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Just by don't own him anything, he's up to date with everything. It's alright, don't take that note. He's up to date with Richard. He's up to date with Richard. Yeah, I've given him four IOUs. I'm up to date with the IOUs. You know, do you know what? This is what I love, you know, about raw talking, raw speaking, not in church language, not in a in a puffed up language where you're trying to be politically correct because we can't be. And when we're talking about leaders, it's interesting, isn't it? The leaders of this nation at this moment, where actually are they? It's in it's the same gotta be careful. Um, it's like um I suppose Elon Musk is watching us in the front room this morning because now he owns Twitter, so we're in his front room.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Good morning, Elon. But I think more importantly, and we've said it all the way, where are the church leaders?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Where are the church leaders? We know where the world leaders are, they're hugging a tree, yeah, or they're they're doing something like that. But where are the spiritual? I think what we need is old testament leaders, Joshua's and Caleb's that go, do you know what? We're gonna rise above the parapet of all this, and and we know that there is a bad report, but our God is able. We can do this because our God has already promised.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

You're exactly right, and and that would wouldn't that be refreshing if we had that? I mean, I I've been led to uh to watch uh quite a lot of Billy Graham's um what a preacher sermons uh uh or talks, if you like, um when he's when he's doing his crusades wherever he is. And back in then, I mean we're talking about the 1980s, really, when I was watching him, and he he was he was uh on the on the uh on the podium a long time before that as well, but he was saying where are the church where are the church leaders? He was saying that then.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Where are the church leaders?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

And and and we said something this morning, Ben, in the in the preamble to this, is that the message is just simple. It's so simple, so yeah, but it's so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yeah, it is it is simple but it's powerful, and sometimes you can get lost in the the simpleness of it that you try and create something over and around it to make it more real because the simple side of it, because Jesus just said, didn't he just believe? Hang on a minute, Lord. If Jesus said just belove, but the church has put all this strapped, all this stuff around it, when actually if you take all the if you unpack it and peel it like an onion, go right away back, yeah, it comes back to just believe.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Well that's what religion's about, isn't it? So religion is about control and manipulation, whereas Jesus is just about a relationship, relationship freedom and forgiveness, really. Yeah. Acceptance.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

And acceptance, and then with the Ten Commandments that we're looking at, if I follow them ten commandments, and as we've been just skimming over it, we thought that we were gonna crack it all out in in one hit, and uh but when but when you look at it and you realise even over these periods of time we're doing, you could cut go backwards and forwards. If I as a believer just believe and follow them ten commandments, and then if that is mirrored by every other believer, the world will not be so different, as in the church.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Do you know what? Um you're you are right, um as you normally are, and uh Jesus said what you said there, Ben, is that the Ten Commandments are a mirror, they're a mirror to ourselves, but they're also a mirror to other people. So if people look at us and and see that that we are you know for listen, uh in the flesh no one can keep these Ten Commandments. Absolutely impossible. And the Bible tells us, and we've said it before in scripture, that we we we break one, we break them all. Do you know? So done. There ain't no one, there's only one person that's ever walked the earth who's kept all of these.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

That's right, yeah. There's only one, isn't it? You or me, is it? No, no, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Because that's we we we stumble and fall on a daily basis. So so going through 'em, then I mean, last week we we hit uh a big one, which was the Sabbath day and and talking about resting. If you did if you haven't listened to that one, it's a great listen. Uh the the old uh that podcast, it's a great listen because we're talking about God wants us to put a certain time away uh uh aside, a week to to rest and and um resting and become holy.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

So yeah, yeah, it's really important in it, that we um become holy. And the only way I can become holy is to follow the Ten Commandments. What I'm what I'm finding more and more fascinating is there is so much out there on man's manuals of how to do it when actually if it was just literally every every preacher preach and every church just taught lit just the Ten Commandments, we'd all have the same manual, but if you look at ministry, there are so many ministries delivering different manuals.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Uh yeah, because they they all want to um have their own piece of the cake, don't they? They all want to um come up with this new revelation. Well, there's you know the Bible tells us there's nothing new under the sun. So um, yeah, the Ten Commandments, everything's wrapped up in there, you know. Everything's as we as we've said, Jesus um he just item dead, you know. It's the the the most important commandment love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your strength, all your mind, and the second one is love your neighbour as yourself. So the Ten Commandments are wrapped up in those because the first four are love the Lord your God. Now we're coming on to the next six, which is all about loving your neighbour as yourself. But within that, we've got sin, salvation, repentance, we've got all of that stuff wrapped up in this, and and so we're in Exodus 20, verse 12 today, Ben. And do you want to read us out what that says? Have you got that up there?

SPEAKER_01 10:42

I got it. Honour your father and mother. So that uh it's sorry, let's start again. Verse 12 says, Honor and honour your father and your mother so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you. There is a lot in that one alone. Goodness, this is bringing this is uh this is deep. It says, honour your father and mother. Well, the the scripture says, doesn't it, in the last days, children will rise up against parents. Children will rise up against parents.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah, now I looked up that word honour, and it's you know, high respect, high regard. Yeah, you don't have doesn't mean you have to agree with your parents, or but you've got to you have to honour them and and this is a difficult this is gonna be a real difficult one for a lot of I mean I controlling people. I do a lot of uh stuff with with men, a lot of do a lot of work with with guys, you know, Christian guys, and this is the big one. The the biggest struggle is with their earthly fathers, their relationships. So to honour some of these fellas, for them to honour their fathers, it has they they they have them to come from a long way, yeah, because first they gotta forgive them.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

So there's a lot wrapped up. So for honour to happen, it starts with me. So the I have to forgive, lay it down at the cross, you know, because to honour someone, and the there's a difference between worshiping.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

That's a great point. That's a great point.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Now then we have to be really careful, don't we? Honouring is being respectful, biblical, because because God makes this very clear, He doesn't use the word worship, he says honour. So it's respect your elders, because that's the biblical church, you know, the eldership, the way the sister and that that throws into the arena again about having youth pastors, you know, so that if it brings up so much stuff. So when it when the Bible says honour your your mum and your dad, um it means to be respectful to what they are saying, but there is an issue in certain areas, but it's such a Simon, this is an enormous subject, and it's difficult to get to your lips around it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

And and it starts with me first, and very interesting, you know, because we've done some stuff with with guys where we dig a bit deeper into their relationship, maybe and why it just hit one guy completely, and and we you know this is just crazy. Uh he just hit him, knocked him out on the floor, knocked him completely for six because he realised he said I've got a problem with my father. If I you know, I look up to my father, and then all of a sudden he realized just what you said, he was putting his father before God. Exactly. He was worshipping his father, and he suddenly realized that and thought, Whoa, you know, so he was broken first commandment, he's broken the first one, but keeping the the fourth commandment.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

So look what Jesus says as well in the New Testament. He says, Come and follow me, drop your neck, come and follow me. Leave your family, drop it. So that so it has to be Jesus first. Yeah, there's no idols, as we've we've done the first one. So to honour your mum and your dad is biblical, but not to worship, not to worship, but but forgiveness has to come in before I can let me unless it's a few scriptures, then you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

So if you so further on from Exodus, if you look at uh Leviticus chapter 20, verse 9, um it says, For everyone who curses his father or mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, his blood shall be upon him. Wow. You know, mate, where'd you go from that?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Um actually, so being a Christian, you're stumped on every level, weren't you?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Every level. Look, so without Proverbs 2020 says, Whoever curses his father or his mother, his lamp will be put out in deep darkness. Whoa. Um just and if Ephesians Ephesians six this is a this is a real tricky discussion because Ephesians six, one to three says, Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honour your father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise, that it will may be well with you, and you may live long on the earth. He he he's repeating it, Paul is repeating what the commandment says.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

He's repeating it. So this is very interesting to look at religion and the church. Now we can see why we've got so much trouble. Obviously, we're living in the end times, but when you look at uh children will rise up against parents. But I actually wonder if the church had preached the Ten Commandments solidly, solidly, solidly, then you would understand. Then there will be a different attitude in the children. But because Christianity has been taken out of education, there's a free-for-all, and you've got the gender issue, so no one can touch the children because of ethics and policies and red tape and bureaucracy, and they have a right, so that absolutely puts the hammer on the word of God, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

The thing yes, yeah, he's taken uh out of the equation. Um but uh you've got an interesting point there because if you if if the if the church had been preaching the Ten Commandments, yeah you see Where would we actually sit? What happens what happens is normally in church everybody's trying to live say they're uh blessed and highly favoured and everything's going all right. But if the church had actually dug a bit deeper and examined relationships with their families, hey there ain't there's they it doesn't do that. It doesn't do that. And preaching this one, honour your father and mother, and going into a bit deeper, we very quickly you'd find people would be a bringing stuff, historical stuff out, but if it was dealt with the right way, they'd get freedom from it, wouldn't they?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

It would, yeah. So the Ten Commandments, the the whole ten, are critical to a believer because it tells me not to have idols, it tells me not to worship foreign gods, it tells me about respect, and also within that scripture that Simon read out, it tells me that I have to honour, not worship, and I have to listen to what my parents say, and but then it then it opens up another door, doesn't it? Well, someone might go, well, my parents were narcissists. That's a different area altogether.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Well, come on to that in a in a second because you know it is bullying. That's a different layer. There's the you come on out to how we deal with that, but you know, this scripture, there's scriptures about fathers and mothers all the way through. Look what Jesus said. He said to the Sadducees and Pharisees who were trying to call on him again, but he had them, you know, in the palm of his hand. He said, Why do you also transgress the commandments of God? Because of your tradition. There you go. For God commanded, saying, Honour your father and your mother, and he who curses the father and mother, let him be put to death. So so anyone who says, Oh, forget about the Old Testament, they don't that doesn't that doesn't count. The Ten Commandments don't count.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Jesus is using it, and Jesus is respectful to his mum Mary. Now, if you were to go to the New Testament and look about where Christ done the miracle of the wine, that was his first miracle. His mum was at a wedding feast. Jesus and the disciples were invited and they went to the wedding feast. And he actually, and his mum said, Look, Jesus, they've run, they've run out of wine, there's water over there. Can we can we do this? We all know we all know what happens, but he actually says something quite interesting. He said, He says, Mum, why are you bringing me into this? And what happens is you see Jesus coming under the authority of his mum, even though he is the king, because he does what his mum says. Jesus, can you sort this out? So Jesus, through his life, knows the authority of being under his parents.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

It's honouring his parents. And and you know, he goes on to say in that scripture, he's talking to the the religious leaders of the day, he says, but you say whoever says to his father or mother, whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift from God. Then he need not honor his father or mother. So it he's saying that um that they need not if if they because they've they've sort of die digressed that particular commandment. Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites, he says, Well did Isaiah prophesy about you saying, These people draw near to me with their mouth and honour me with their lips, but their heart is full from me. Wow. And in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. The commandments of men, but not the commandments of God.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Jesus covers everything, doesn't he? Just in a few words. Just in a few words, so that honour thy father and thy mother. How different when you look at gang crime, when you look at all this sort of stuff that's going on, you know, and you see what's happening across the world, you know, there there is no respect for elders anymore. You know, there's an upside-down kingdom, even within the church. We've got leaders that are still in the Moses baskets trying to lead and not listening to the wires of the elders in the congregation. So you have this in church itself.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Very true, but you do you think let me ask you this question. Do you think uh too much emphasis is put on youth and all day long?

SPEAKER_01 20:45

All day. That's why we're in trouble. We're in trouble in the church because we're looking to the youth, because the music industry looks to the youth, and we're trying to use the the batter of the way we dress, the way the way they we're trying to use that, and and you know, in the music industry, youth is used all the way through to be the drawing factor. Well, in the gospel, it doesn't, it's nothing whatsoever. You know, it says about the eldership, and and and if you look at the wise and the learned, even David, he was he was called and anointed, but it wasn't his time and his purpose. He had to go back to the field. So we have a lot of issues in church because of the leadership are too young and they haven't gone through the refiner's fire. Uh yeah, and we've so they don't understand respect.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

I come back to uh my mate Tony, who's who's the um youth leader, and he's you know, Tony, well Mommy's saying I think he's uh approaching fifty if he's not already, yeah. But he's the youth leader, and uh he's the youth in these church they get so much experience, you know, so much life experience from him because he's been because he's done the Psalm twenty three, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

The Lord is my Shepherd, he leads me, he guides me, he strengthens me. He's been through the valley of the shadow of death, he's experienced life, he knows what life is.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

But when you've got someone, it's not in the world, he's got he works in the world, he's got his you know business.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

So if you look at Jesus, obviously, when he was just he came into the world, the Bible says, and the world became flesh. And if you was to look in the gospels of Jesus' early life, Jesus was nurtured and Jesus was looked after by his mum. He didn't jump into ministry at a young age. He wasn't a youth leader, he wasn't leading the youth. You don't see anything about his ministry until it's about 30, 33. Whatever the age was, he wasn't a young person. He was a gifted and he was nurtured by his mum. His mum and dad protected him from Herod. His mum and this is the living word in the Gospel of Luke. It says a dream and a vision came to them. Get out of this place. They looked after him. Adults need to look after children.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Mate, yes, very much so. Very much so. And that's a uh a thing, and I think we're gonna we're gonna come on to that in just a second. But what you spoke about, Ben, about respecting elders and stuff, and it happens within certain cultures. That's that's the truth. But but look what Paul said to Timothy, right? In in 1 Timothy 5, he says, Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father, younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, with all purity. Right. Look what he says, and then he goes on, and then he goes on to say, but if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those in his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

I've never read that before. He's worse than a numb believer.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah. That's what he says to Timothy.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

I tell you what, no wonder the church in the UK is in trouble. In not just in weak doctrine, but actually in attitude, in who we put behind pulpits. How many people in pulpits and leadership have attitude problems that will will Do you know the biggest and the greatest leaders in church are the elders, the men and women sitting in congregations that are over a certain age, that have lived life, and when I say lived, they have lived life, but they have seen redemption through their failings. And it's interesting that you you I've listened to many, many preaching and many sermonizing from young preachers, and you can tell that they they are not mature. They might be able to deliver a theological message, but what you need more than theological, you need you need the application of the disciples, what they had. Look at Paul, he said, we despaired of life itself. When you when you read and study these these guys, they were they was mature in age. That Christ, Christ was brought up in a household, and he did not do any youth ministry, he went straight to the cross. But he's had 30 years, 30 years of being brought up because he lived at home. And and the thing is with uh with Jesus, obviously he's got his physical appearance, but he's had 30 years of sown into his heavenly father, and he so you see a you see the man Christ Jesus being obedient to all these scriptures when he says, I'm doing the will of. He said, In the garden, not my will. We look at that spiritually, we look at that physically. He was honouring what the father's message was, the father's will. So there we have all the way to the cross, Jesus honouring the Father. Honouring the Father, the Father's will. It's it just but then we enter into another conversation.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

When you look at that, it just opens it all up.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Yeah. So to honour a parent or a or a parent, a mum or a dad, if you that parent needs to be in the word of God. Because if the parent isn't in the word of God, I know we all sinned and falling short of that glory, but this is a really difficult one because you can oh goodness, how do you word it? You can only honour, you got, yeah, it's like Joshua, isn't it? Joshua, as a leader, came under Moses and he he listened and followed. He did not step out of line in any time of his leadership until Moses, and God had to say to him, Moses is dead, now Joshua. So there's respect and there's honour.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah, there's uh you know, I I think it there's respect and honour for your parents, and it's a very, very difficult one for a lot of people, a lot of men. I mean, I know it is for a lot of women, but and I my my thing is that uh we deal with a lot of guys, and uh and for a lot of men growing up, their father you there's some horrendous stories of of what their father done to them, yeah. Uh and that leaves a scar. And uh and a lot of uh a lot of men I know struggle. They believe in Jesus all day long, and they believe in the Holy Spirit, but loving God the Father, because of their relationship with their own father, they struggle. They struggle.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

That's what we call we hit a wall or not forgiving. And the key is forgiveness.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

The key totally is forgiveness. And there's a there's a but it there's a scripture, and I can't put my hand on it right now, but it's in it's in one or two Corinthians, I'm not sure. But it says it says we have ten thousand preachers and teachers, but no fathers. So the church has not modelled what a father should be. Because it's come away from the Ten Commandments. The church should model what a father should be. And if the older guys in the church should then be mentors to younger guys, so even if even if your earthly father relationship is not great, you should have um a mentor.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Gotta be careful how we use it.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yeah, no, but a mentor, I'd say, because a spiritual father is your heavenly father all day long. But many men just can't get over that fact that you know I could there's some horrendous stories, a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

There's some horrific stories, everything has gone on.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

It's gone on.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

But when we when we drill back and we pull it pull it all back, we come to I've got to forgive.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

There is, yeah, and that and that's not easy.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

No, no, but look what Jesus said to his father on the cross. Father, forgive them for they know what they do. So so that conversation there, forgive them for they know so God had to forgive what they was doing, even though it was a deliberate plan of salvation.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah, it's a good point, Ben. Uh what I'd say to someone who has a real scar with their earthly father, and um I'd say follow Jesus. You got to follow Jesus. Because he will lead you to the Father, to the Heavenly Father, and when you like there's healing in Jesus, there's and it's it's a lifetime journey, though. Let me tell you, I don't know who my biological father is. I've got some sketchy thing about him being in the military, and and but I know he's he's dead a long time ago, but I don't know who my biological father was. But you know, I followed I got I followed Jesus to my heavenly father, and when you're in his arms and the love that he gives you, you don't want to be anywhere else.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

So yeah, so I think that comes down to the will, doesn't it? The will of the father. When you realise who you are in Christ, well forgiveness comes because we're battling with masculinity and the caveman attitude of you can't cry, you can't have emotions, you can't do this, you can't do that. Jesus cried.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Jesus cried, he cried drops of blood, didn't he?

SPEAKER_01 30:23

He cried that much, he was in that much anguish. But the world tells you that you've got to be so tough, so manly.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

But it's it's the Father, our Heavenly Father's will that we come back to him. That's correct. And the only way we can come back to him is through Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

So it's Jesus centered all the way.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

He didn't say, Oh, that's the way to the Father, this is the way to the Father. He said, I am the way to the Father.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

I'm the filter system, I'm the way to the Father.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Come to me. Bring to me all your problems and troubles. I will give you rest, but I'll also lead you to the Father.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Follow Jesus to the Father. And understand this. Look, look, I have a little poem here that I want to read out, Ben. I don't know. It's uh it's interesting. Um this came out of that that book Um A Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. Yeah. And it it's I I've read it a few times to to fellas, and and they kind of it kind of they kind of understand. Uh it makes it clear. So it says this, it says, you are who you are for a reason. You're part of an intricate plan. You're a precious and perfect, unique design called God's special woman or man. You look like you look for a reason. Oh, God made no mistake. He knit you together within the womb. You're just who he wanted to make. And this is the big one. The parents you had were the ones he chose. And no matter how you may feel, they were custom designed with God's plan in mind, and they bear the master's seal. He says, No, that trouble you faced was not easy, and God wept that it hurt you so but it was allowed to shape your heart so that into his likeness you grow. You are who you are for a reason, you're formed by the Master's rod. You are who you are, beloved, because there is a God. Now powerful. The big thing in there is that your parents are the ones that chose for you.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Now, some people may may you know you may hate your father absolutely livid at this hearing that can't stand mum, dad fighting all their life all without them too, you would not be born.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Now, if you you know, we live in a world that we live in a fatherless generation, we have yeah cultures that that are baby mamas all over the place, but yeah, you know, without that man and that woman, you would not have been formed. Your path may be very, very difficult, it may be hard, and forgiveness is not easy, but if you can bring yourself to forgive, first of all, uh a parent who's who's wronged you and then forgive yourself.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

That's an accelerator. You've catapulted yourself right over it. So even if people go, Well, I haven't actually got a father, I don't even know who my father is. Follow Jesus, talk to Jesus, and he will take you to the father of all fathers. So it doesn't matter if I haven't got an earthly father, a physical, even if I haven't got a photo, doesn't know where whoever they may be. Really, that is irrelevant because the father of fathers, the father is in heaven, your father is in heaven, and it's through Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Here's the deal with that. How many times do we ever ask our father what do you think of me? Yeah. Now, no matter what your earthly father says, you might say you're a loser, he might say you'll never achieve anything, he might have might have never said he believed in you. Your heavenly father's not gonna say that.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

So what does Jesus say? What does the word say? Who does he say I am? Look what he said to his son. That's my son that I'm well pleased with. Does God call us does God punish us?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Our Heavenly Father is not gonna say we never thought you'd make anything. You're a you no, he he you're a use. No, he's gonna he's gonna say we love you. The product for you today. We don't like some of the stuff you get involved in. We don't like, but you know, get the forgiveness, the repentance, come to me. Come to me, come to me through my son Jesus Christ. Come to me. That's who that's why I've given him to you for salvation. But you have to do your part.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Yeah. You have to, and where does my part start? Where does it start? It starts with Jesus. It's this simple. Please, Lord, help me. Help me to forgive. Because when I forgive, honour and respect come across all the platforms of everything. When when I ask for for it, comes to the point I have to go to the cross of Calvary because I can't honour anyone, I can't be respectful until I have the inner me dealt with.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

And it I know many, many men that have uh come to break that generational stuff and and start to love their own families, and that's another thing we can come on to. But but they've managed to find it within themselves, they can't do it without the Holy Spirit. Listen, you cannot you cannot find forgiveness for something that has hurt you so bad without the Holy Spirit. You can't you can't do it in the flesh.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Well, it does, it does the opposite. It gets you bitter, it gets you frustrated. That's what the flesh wants, it gets you angry, it wants you to pay back. So there is no honour, there is no honour to no one because you are driven by by anger and you are driven by frustration, and you are driven by your flesh rather than forgiveness has to happen to all of us for us to move forward.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

I always remember the um uh the talk, a talk that uh I think uh I read somewhere with Corey Temboom, she was uh the the lady that uh oh yeah that what story saw uh uh a family um um white executed uh in the in the concentration and she was speaking on forgiveness once and when she finished a guy walked forward and she recognised him instantly as one of the guards in the concentration camp who'd taken her family to be executed, and he looked and he said eyeball to eyeball and says forgiveness for me silence this. And she was quite and she was quite she was quite honest, you know. I could not forgive this guy without without the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God you know, there's things that have been done to men and and women is you know you cannot but once I've seen one I've seen the light come on, and once that forgiveness is is given, if you like, then I've seen miraculous things happen because the fathers come to the faith, they come to the Lord, they see the difference in you.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

So suddenly the family unit, everything is healed. It always comes back. So I can't have honour, I can't have respect, I can't have uh faith, I can, but it's not what I think it is. I I become religious, I become angry, I can't honour my elders in any area. That's why I think we have so much carnage within the UK, is that we're leaderless in in the world, in church, there's no honour, there's no disrespect. Why why are you saying that that Ben? I I I put I put my life on the line is because the Ten Commandments have been taken out. Because if they are preached and line by line precept, sermonized and uh just read through and prayed over in prayer meetings, in Bible studies, we don't need any other manual, we don't need another manual from the other side of the transatlantic preachers. We need the Ten Commandments. That's it. If I want my the Bible says bring a child up in the way that it should go. If if you look at Jesus, Jesus honored his mum. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

He didn't worship her, he honored her, he honoured her, and these things aren't about conscience, although you know we've got we have a conscience, but these are commandments, yeah. They're commandments from God, and if anyone anybody ever says to you, well, that's for the old testament, it's just that's a lie strong life. Jesus continually picked from the Ten Commandments and said stuff.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Jesus they're always pulling from the ten, they're always pulling out the Ten Commandments, they're always drawing on the word that was given, and he is the word, he is the king, you know. So with honour and respect, respect your elders, your your mum and your dad, but then there's another another area where I feel like I haven't even said or brought anything really to the table on this because it is such a deep dive, and then it says, May uh and it says so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God has given you. So this affects my being.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

It affects your being because listen, if you've got hatred, unforgiveness, dishonour, or unforgiveness, it turns me away. It eats me like a cancer. What does Nelson Mandela say about resentment? You know, he he said Nelson uh Nelson Mandela said about resentment, it's like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. So it eats you away from the inside. So it's me. So it all comes back to me. It all comes back to self, doesn't it? It comes back to what happens is, Ben, if you uh if your father because regardless whether and people men are gonna men and women all hate this, but you do look to what your father or mother says to you. You know, it does it impacts. It has in so if you I mean look, I've known men who have waited 40 years for the dad to say I'm proud of you, son. Yeah. So if that has one or two effects on you, it can either make send you into a into a tailspin and and you you become a hard company. Yeah, yeah, you've just got no confidence, um, bounce here there and everywhere. No stability. You're looking for validation from it from wherever, you know, uh, and and and you know the Christian faith will give you a bit of validation, you know, here there and everywhere. They'll put you up, they'll give you a microphone, you know, and all of a sudden it's talking about you. It's empty though, isn't it? It's empty, of course it is. Or you go the other way, Ben, where where you go, I'm gonna uh I'm gonna show him, I'm gonna show him that that uh I'm more than that, but you'll never ever because you'll reach a certain level and then you want to do some more, and then you want to do some more because all you ever wanted was for your that parent to say, Well done, well done, Sam. And what did God say? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

What did God say?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Totally it, Ben. That's totally it.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

But then, very interestingly, God said, This is my son that I'm well pleased with, and then the spirit came down as a dove, anointed, filled.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

So, what does that tell us if you're a father or a mother or a parent or grandparent out there? What does that tell us? We've got to do to our children, our grandchildren, anyone around us. What does it tell us?

SPEAKER_01 42:09

It tells us very clearly that we have to be respectful to the child, we have to speak to the child in words of affirmation, and it's not so much of controlling and why are they doing wrong all the time?

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Because there could be a lack of love, they want attention, and any attention is good attention. We have to encourage and we have to tell these our kids that we love them.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

I think this is a dangerous word to mention, ADHD, and all that stuff. I think there is so much stuff around in all this labelling because we are lacking parenting, biblical parenting, because children are hungry. I need to be loved. I I I need the father always showed the love to Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Ben, it I just I just think you're you're right, and I think it's huge, and and I think in within within uh our faith when that we're not majoring on biblical parenting. No, we're not majoring on shine the big lights, does it, eh?

SPEAKER_01 43:18

You've got two dads bringing a child up, you've got two women bringing a child up, you've got so much going on when actually the Bible takes it clear. Joseph had a responsibility to Jesus, Mary had a responsibility to Jesus. They protected him, they fed him, they watered him. It needs to be mum and dad. It I'm afraid, whatever way you look at it, it can't be Steve and Steve.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

It can't be that.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

And I'm being very I'm being very respectful to everybody out there that this big drum that is coming against the church, parenting can only be done by mum and dad. And I will probably be ripped to shreds on a lot of things that I say, but the Biblical biblical, even when you look at the science of it. The big biblical format of the family is is exactly because a lady is made different to a man, and I'm not referring to the physical, I'm referring to the inner makeup, the inner, the nurturing. A man cannot bring up a child in the way of nurturing like a mum can. A mum cannot bring up a child in the same way that a dad can. So the two need to go together.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

So we we we have um we have problems across our society. We do where where we where we have a lot a lot of single parent families. And that's really tough. Um I remember uh watching a thing with a guy called Louis Faroux, he um he does investigated journalism, and uh he was in a place called Milwaukee in the United States, which in that time was the murder capital of of the states, I think it's Chicago now. But uh and he had a group of young 16-year-old black lads, and and he said to them, Um, what does your father think of of you? you know, and they all laughed, and they all said, My mummy's my father. This is this is the way we've got and they did a study, there was a uh a group of um um herd of elephants uh uh in Africa. This is just crazy. Uh and uh these were elephants they're normally elephants uh are in a tight family unit, you know. You've got elders and you've got that, but these herds were going off, they were they were smashing things up, they were wild. Yeah, and when they looked at it, all the older elephants, all the big bull elephants, have been killed by poachers. Wow, and so all they got was the teenage youth growing up, and they had no guidelines, they had no mentals. We this is what we need, and it's sadly missing within the Christian world, and if it's missing within the Christian world, is that it a mirror?

SPEAKER_01 45:55

So people will go, well, okay, I haven't got an earthly father. Well, Christ biologically, and through science and all the stuff that goes with that, Joseph, his dad, was his stepfather, but Jesus still respected, so you don't have to have the same blood running through your body to call yourself a father. So when you look at Jesus, Jesus, we understand the Immaculate Conception, we get that, we understand that, we believe in that, but when you look at Joseph, Joseph was his earthly father as in in the way that he brought him up. He brought him up in the in a father figure like. So for those that don't have that father, and for those that are under the stepfather area or the stepmother, you know, it's it doesn't need to have the same blood in the veins. It's about love, care, and respect. Joseph, when you look at Joseph, the way he treated Jesus, his son, as in what we understand and all that, but he wasn't his biological dad.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Yeah, we that's so we we respect, we honour yeah. Jesus honored him. And if there is issues that we need to forgive, yeah, then we find the strength of the Holy Spirit to to forgive and move forward. Because I I would tell you now, if there's unforgiveness, that's what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

If there's unforgiveness, every one of us, I can't do this text that we're looking at. Verse 12 honour thy father and mother, so that it uh so uh you may live long. So it pushes it back onto me. It won't affect them in in in all them ways, but what it really does, it affects me. Well, I was it's me.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

I was brought up by a stepfather, and there wasn't a lot of love there, you know. It really I won't go into it, you know, but I just I it didn't I just got on with it. But it made me quite a cold, yeah, hearted person, and um until I found some faith, and and then you know the Bible says he breaks our hearts of stone, doesn't he? So and um I was watching uh As You Do the God the God Channel one day for a bit of fun, yeah, and um someone was on there and they were talking about you God won't move you on to the next level if there's yes unforgiveness still in your heart. Yeah, yeah. So what happened was um very briefly, I didn't think much of that. Uh you know, I came back from I was doing a bit of work, came back from the work, switched the tally on again, the God channel was on, the same person was on, same spot, right? So I thought why are you talking, talking to me? Where's this unforgiveness in my heart? Well I realised there was old I was holding on to some from my stepfather. Um so I went up to see him and um uh and told him, and it I I don't advise anybody doing this, but I just confronted him and said, I'll forgive you for the stuff that you've done. And he was a bit shocked, he wasn't he couldn't remember or didn't want to remember some of the stuff that went on. Um but what happened then was about six months later later he contracted leukemia and uh because I'd forgiven him, I was able to go up and see him, speak to him about the Lord, and and uh he you know he made a verbal commitment where it took him, I don't know, there and then. But you know, I uh I you know I have to believe that he followed that for a year. He was following Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

But but without that, without that, so the trigger forgiveness was the cross. It was the cross all the time. So you come so that these commandments all the time, every one of them take us where to the cross.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

To the cross.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

So nothing can be achieved without the cross. And what we mean by the cross, and we're not lifting it up as a religious religious a religious symbol, what we are referring to is the one that went to the cross. It takes you to Jesus Christ. Every scripture, every commandment, honour, what whatever one you are looking at, it always takes you to Jesus, and that's the that's the centre. Jesus has to be the centre. But there are many people that have gone to the religious cross that are still struggling because they haven't gone to exactly.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

You know, you can uh you can be uh you can be baptized, you can be in a church, but you ain't got that relationship with Jesus, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

And are we coming into land? What's the time? You're almost denied before 50 51 minutes with cruise. And you know what, something it feels like I haven't I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

We haven't scratched the scratch, but as we come into land on this one, as we come into as finished, Benny's exactly right. If you've not got that relationship with Jesus, and and I'll just bring you back to Richard, really. Well, we came in back to Richard as we came in who said all I want to do is follow Jesus, and the look and the countenance and the light that was shining out of him, mate, brings a tear to your eyes.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

It does bring a tear to your eye, doesn't it? Because everything, the scriptures that you've read out, and honestly, they've like gone over my head today because this is such a deep dive. But every time you look at the Ten Commandments, you can't do any any of them without Jesus. The religious way, every way it has to be Jesus. Well, so how do we wrap you wrap this up? Come on.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Well, we're we're back in we'll be back in uh the Ten Commandments next week. We might even uh spend a bit more time in this one, but we'll see what the Lord gives us in the week. But the next one is um Thou shalt not murder, see. So goodness gracious me. And Jesus said, even calling your brother a fool, you're in danger, don't he? So you're in trap.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

When you really unpack the ten commandments, yeah, everything has just been I've done all of them.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

They're all done. They're all done, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

You know, my bucket list is I've failed every one of them. Jesus had gone, yeah, you have but but redemption.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Yeah. Yeah, I think the big thing that's come out today, Ben, more than anything else, is that we can't do this stuff in the flesh. We can't do this stuff without the Holy Spirit, we can't do this stuff without Jesus. And if you're struggling today, I'm serious out there, if you're struggling today with any stuff, any historical stuff that's gone on with your parents, yeah, then please put the power of the Holy Spirit forgive and follow Jesus, and he'll lead you to the Father. And please, yeah, I can't. We've we wrote a chapter in the in in the book that we we did uh called The Father's Arms. Yeah, get to the Father's Arms, follow Jesus to the Father. It's not a pub, it's the Father's Arms. He's our Heavenly Father, and um I'd say just just follow him. And um yeah, uh if you want to know much more, if you've got any little testimonies, anything, then then get in touch with us at um you know where to get in touch with us.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

You know, I guess yeah, yeah, amen. You can find us on Buzz Sprout, Spotify, my voice is going, hashtag Christian Straight Talk, Alexa, Amazon Music, so many other platforms. Have a great day. God is with you, never give up hope. Come on, let's follow the word of God.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Never give up, be encouraged. God bless. Amen.